Why our health care system should not be run by Government

The un-American partnerships involved (0.00 / 0)

This video clip does a great job explaining some of the inappropriate elements of a Government Run program, IMO:
ACORN, SEIU, & ObamaCare in a Nutshell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

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by: antiEFCA @ Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:23:26 AM CDT

Glen Beck? You want us to take (0.00 / 0)

Glen Beck as a legitimate source? Give me an f'n break.

Let's start with Beck's first claim, that Andy Stern, head of the SEIU, has been the ONLY representative of labor organizations to meet with the POTUS to discuss health care reform. I spent 30 seconds searching the web to see if this is true, and found this article from the Detroit News, the right leaning paper from my hometown:

President Barack Obama will meet Monday afternoon with about a dozen of the nation's top labor leaders to discuss efforts to make it easier to organize new members and reform the nation's health care system.

The meeting -- set for 1:15 p.m. Monday at the White House -- is expected to include John Sweeney, the president of the AFL-CIO and Andrew L. Stern, president of the Service Employees International Union.

An administration official confirmed the meeting, saying "it will be a chance to discuss our shared priorities and goals."

Dennis Van Roekel, president of the National Education Association, and James P. Hoffa, Teamsters president, also are set to attend.

Also on the list -- according to an e-mail sent to participants -- are Gerald McEntee, international president of the 1.6 million-member American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, and Anna Burger, secretary-treasurer of the SEIU and chairwoman of the Change to Win labor coalition.

I didn't watch any further - Beck launches his argument with a lie, one that if he didn't know because of ignorance, was easily fact checked.

You could have fact checked it too, for that matter. Here's an assignment for you for not doing so - fact check every claim that Beck makes on the video you cite and get back to us on how he does.

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by: Gerald Weinand @ Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 13:36:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

You do know that Dirigo Health (0.00 / 0)

is not administered by the State, but by a private insurance company. The number of employees actually on State payroll seems small because most of those actually working for Dirigo Health are employed by this private insurance company.

Dirigo Health was designed by a State agency, but as noted above, to be administered by a private company - that is, by a company that Dirigo Health competes with. Perhaps it was too much to expect the administrator to honestly represent Dirigo Health as it would any of its own products, but this is what happened.

Dirigo Health has never been able to obtain enough subscribers needed to compete with the private sector, which in Maine is basically Wellpoint/Anthem.

The proposal for a insurance Exchange and the public option in H.R. 3200 address this short coming in Dirigo Health. This is, of course, exactly how Federalism is supposed to work, with States testing ideas, and if found worthy, full adoption (with tweaks and revisions) by the Fed.

As has been noted elsewhere, nearly 28% of Americans are covered by some type of public health care plan (Medicare, Medicaid, the VA System and the Indian Health Service). With 15% of Americans lacking health insurance of any kind, this means that 57% of us have health insurance, most of which is provided by employers.

You believe that the Federal government should not be a health care insurer, but in fact it already is. Not only that, Medicare insures the demographic that has the highest annual health care costs - the elderly.

There is a reason why no for-profit insurers venture into the elderly health insurance market - premiums would have to be so high that few retirees would be able to afford them. By increasing the size of Medicare to include younger people, the coverage pool is increased, spreading the costs.

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by: Gerald Weinand @ Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 13:28:07 PM CDT

Well said.... (0.00 / 0)

Why Baldacci, et al thought a company would actively compete with itself is beyond all reason. Score one for "idiot" in the idiot v. merely disingenuous race.

When asked what he thought of western civilization, Gandhi replied, "I think it would be a good idea."

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by: KayStreet @ Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 16:59:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Welcome (0.00 / 0)

I listen to regularly Beck, Limbaugh, and others and read the WSJ everyday to strive to understand other sides of the health care debate.  The bottom line is that the right's claim to validity only thinly rests on a fear of taxes and just about nothing else.

The old fashioned, small town conservative, child of immigrants made good, part owner of the local hardware store, who did a civic turn or two with the downtown chamber, and was a local deacon would argue against the higher tax issue but would also understand the morality issue and would take part in the debate to work toward possible eventual consensus.

That conservative has been replaced by a grandchild of immigrants who despises new immigrants, had local ownership whipped out by big box stores, gets civics from single issue radio ranters, uses religion to create division, argues against all taxes for any purpose (except cops, firemen and soldiers to protect private property), rejects any moral argument over unflinching trust in the never erring market, and uses outright falsehoods to defeat issues at any cost and considers consensus as something for losers.

I unconditionally assume you are not the preceding person at all or make such an ill founded accusation without knowing you personally.  You show a welcome interest in understanding and researching.  I believe you posted here not taunt but to engage.

I suggest you read this site and its many links without preconceptions, reserving comment for a few weeks to explore all our arguments and motivations.  Tune in Bill Moyers every Friday night on PBS, treat yourself to some popcorn and an evening watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" in its entirety (available on Netflix, local video stores, or http://www.freedocumentaries.o... and perhaps read a short book like "The Gospel according to RFK".  Then, please do re-engage us in a discussion of the morality of a country denying basic health care to millions and inadequate coverage for so many more on selfish grounds and help figure out the economics of addressing the matter.

And finally, in closing, we are liberals but we are not the far left.  We are actually the center and we represent the aspirations and expectations of those who are truly in the center of a country that drifted so far right it lost its center for several decades. Many of us, like that old fashioned conservative, are "Yankee" liberals who expect our tax money to be well spent and not squandered.  We are true patriots who live in a country of possibilities, imagination, dreams realized, caring fairness, and human dignity for all.

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by: Bruce Bourgoine @ Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 17:10:55 PM CDT

I echo what bourgoine said... very eloquent... n/t (0.00 / 0)

When asked what he thought of western civilization, Gandhi replied, "I think it would be a good idea."

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by: KayStreet @ Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 19:40:31 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

You appear to be Far Left from here. (0.00 / 0)

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by: antiEFCA @ Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 05:20:36 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Still waiting for your reasons (0.00 / 0)

for opposing H.R. 3200. So far you've stated that you oppose it because illegal aliens would get free health care. Of course, not only do they not get free health care, but I pointed out that:

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

doesn't even let them get financial assistance if they are poor.

You also have stated that the "health care system should not be run by Government," despite that nearly 28% of Americans currently do, and have for over 40 years.

So what sections of H.R. 3200 do you object to?

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by: Gerald Weinand @ Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 05:49:39 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Taxes will go up (0.00 / 0)

In light of the following statement by the CBO, it's safe to assume our taxes will go up to cover costs.  Needless to say, I don't think American taxpayers should have to reach into their pockets yet again for a government experiment.

"According to CBO's and JCT's assessment, enacting H.R. 3200 would result in a net increase in the federal budget deficit of $239 billion over the 2010-2019 period."
Source: www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/health.cfm

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by: antiEFCA @ Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 12:52:16 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The net increase you cite (0.00 / 0)

includes the annual Medicare reimbursement to providers adjustment of $245 million. This adjustment will happen whether or not H.R. 3200 is passed, and so cannot be honestly added to the cost of the bill.

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by: Gerald Weinand @ Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 13:02:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Chicago-style politics (0.00 / 0)

It's a shame so many people are falling for the Chicago-style politics, but those games will eventually be terminated... and I look forward to that day.

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by: antiEFCA @ Tue Aug 25, 2009 at 04:38:58 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Always a good thing to throw out (0.00 / 0)

a non-sequitur when you have no real rebuttal. Of course, not responding at all is best.

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by: Gerald Weinand @ Tue Aug 25, 2009 at 17:09:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Game Over. (0.00 / 0)

Thanks for playing, Gerald, but your Chicago-style games are now over.

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by: antiEFCA @ Tue Aug 25, 2009 at 17:46:38 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Dammit - I forgot about (0.00 / 0)

"I'm gonna take my ball and go home." Okay everyone - no more discussion about health insurance reform - antiEFCA has taken his ball and gone home.

But we do look forward to debunking your bullshit when you bring it when the EFCA comes up for a vote.

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by: Gerald Weinand @ Tue Aug 25, 2009 at 20:15:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]